First kill on MeeGo project: www.maemo-guru.com

I wish TheGuru would not have that a strong argument while leaving the Maemo / MeeGo community.

I wish this argument wouldn’t have been possible to be hold against Nokia.

I wish he would have been wrong.

To Nokia:

“To Nokia – make a freakin’ commitment. Commit to the developers who are constantly having to rewrite their apps every time you release a device. Commit to the consumers who are trying to get excited about purchasing a $500+ device that’s going to be incompatible with the next version. Commit to not make each device incompatible with the next version of your platform. Commit to developing the product line beyond ‘ooooh, shiny’ with each release.”

To Maemo community:

(…)you’ve made a *big* change towards welcoming new people. Yeah, I’ve noticed, and you should be congratulated for improving so much in that regard. Keep it up. I hope for Nokia’s sake that you stick around”

The entire article here

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14 Responses to First kill on MeeGo project: www.maemo-guru.com

  1. Pingback: Pinguins Móveis » Blog Archive » MeeGo… e agora?

  2. @Mr Green: as I’ve already pointed out a number of times in my comments, Qt is the solution both to this problem and is the recommended software stack for both Maemo now, and MeeGo. MeeGo’s window manager, UI, and everything else coming out of Nokia that I’ve seen so far are running in Qt, which means they’ll run elsewhere.

    Why are you worried about application compatibility?

  3. ali says:

    I have to agree with Guru. Its obvious that Nokia is really confused as to which direction to take. As far as the n900, don’t bet that it will get any ‘new’ OS or maemo 6 or whatever. I guess its fine for what it is ‘ a pocketpc running on a now defunct OS’. But If I were a developer (which i’m not), this would have been the stick that broke the camels back. I mean how many times are you supposed write and rewrite programs? And for what gain ? I really don’t know why Nokia insists on re-inventing the wheel. Instead of relaunching a new OS every 6 months, why don’t they play around with Android. Its already here, has tons of Apps and will be the main smartphone OS worldwide by the end of this year. While nokia may currenly own 50% of the world market smartphone share on symbian, Nokia knows that the truth is that their markey share of smartphones is going to drop to 25-35% by the end of 2010. That’s why they did they crazy venture with intel. So Meego, and so off to ebay the n900 go.

  4. @Mr Green: Why would you be bitter about purchasing an N900? Seriously, why? Maemo 5 will recieve further updates, and MeeGo will almost certainly run on it, as the community behind it (including Nokia) seems to want to make that happen. It’s day two. Don’t be a pessimist, it’s too easy. (see also: http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/02/future-of-n900-what-meego-means.html)

    • Mr Green says:

      @Robin

      I’ve learned a hard lesson: it’s not an upstage hardware problem, I’m not afraid of better hw. This is Google’s problem, not Nokia’s.
      I’m afraid of losing current favorites apps and not being able to install any MeeGo apps on Maemo. The community behind Maemo is great, but totally swamped by Nokia itself, pouring thousands of newbies that don’t have a clue where is anything.

  5. @Sarath: Yeah. Previous devices weren’t a good bet, mostly due to the shifting platform. But Nokia were at least always pretty open with it *not* being a ‘consumer-friendly’ device at that stage. FWIW, I don’t know whether you’ve heard of Mer, but that was (and is) doing a good job at making Maemo 5 APIs and components available to older devices. Maemo 5 itself wouldn’t run on the older hardware due to the lack of decent 3D hardware (unfortunately it isn’t that great). TI has now released the drivers for the 810 I *think*, but I’m the wrong guy to talk to about that. Again, come talk to Mer. :)

    As for Nokia’s direction: look at MeeGo. It’s going to be fully open, and fully community directed. Maemo wasn’t. This is another huge step *forward*, as now the whole base platform, and not just the application level, is up for grabs.

    As for application quality, I can’t say I’ve had problems myself, but I think that is rather on a tangent anyway.

    I’d like to reiterate (since you mention lack of backporting from Maemo 5 again) that the Maemo line before N900 was certainly not a flagship device, and the N900 itself is only one largely by accident. It certainly didn’t get advertised and given pole position to become one.

    As for your position on MeeGo, I think you’re confusing a lot of seperate issues there.

    The packaging change is an issue, yes, but it’s one I’m working with the rest of the community to address (and help change direction, if necessary). But even that isn’t such a big issue – so long as software can be compiled for it, at the end of the day, it will work out.

    Re: API discussion… Qt… way forward. That’s where they’re focussing energy, and Qt applications *will* run and *will* pretty much port anywhere you want, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere.

    Don’t know what you’re meaning about process architecture. It’s plain Linux, and will remain so. If you’re meaning binary architecture, then that won’t matter. A recompile of all the existing packages (which will be easy with MeeGo’s build system) and it’s up and running. MeeGo is portable in that regard where Maemo was *not*, really.

  6. Interesting that I’ve got so many comments to address, but here goes…

    @Mr Green: To be fair, only one of those is a Maemo based device, and Qt is still relatively immature. Qt on Symbian in particular is still in early days. This landscape *is* shifting, and will continue to shift, and Maemo (and now MeeGo) are leading the way there. I won’t say it’s an easy trek by any means, but it’s a necessary bandaid to rip off, and these are really exciting — not demoralising — times.

    As to Janole/Gravity: if it was built with Qt, it’d run on newer Symbian, Windows Mobile, Maemo, MeeGo, Moblin, Linux, Windows, OS X, and probably a bunch of other much less relevant platforms. It’s the way forward, and is becoming increasingly obviously so. If it was using plain Gtk+, it’d still manage (at least) Maemo, MeeGo, Moblin, Linux, and Windows. Symbian is on very much the *wrong* side of the compatibility stakes.

    I personally feel that the Maemo community understandably has reservations, but is starting to realise (after thinking about things for a day after the announcement, instead of panning it on day one) that MeeGo is a *great* thing. It’s better than Maemo. It’s finally going to be a fully open base stack to play with instead of Nokia holding most of the cards and refusing to give proper answers about anything.

  7. Giacomo says:

    Check the previous post on returning his pre-production N900: this guy had already decided to leave the community well before MeeGo appeared.

    As an application developer with an eye to the Ovi Store, I’m not overwhelmed by joy; however I know the Maemo project was (still is) in a difficult situation (the real deal in Nokia is still Symbian / S60, and it will remain so for the foreseeable future), and this move might guarantee a better future for the platform.

    • Mr Green says:

      @Giacomo
      This guy’s tech history doesn’t affect a bit of his argument.

      Of course you hope for better, out of this MeeGo; but are you developing something now for Maemo, or do you wait for this “better thing” to come?

      Come on, this venture is nothing like a “best solution”, but a simple “the only solution”; Nokia doesn’t have enough money for anything else but this desperate venture. I wish I was wrong.

  8. Mr Green says:

    @Sarah

    Is the lack of back compatibility Nokia main mistake?

  9. Sarath says:

    I agree with the guru. I blew $550 on the N810 WE 2 weeks after it was released, when I was contemplating an ipod touch for far less. Within a month of me buying it, Nokia EOLed the model, leaving me stranded without any OS updates. Sure, N900 and Maemo 5 launched, but there was no hint of them backwards porting the OS. And major drivers like for the 3d chipset are still unwritten, the GPS driver is horrible and doesn’t work half the time.

    I haven’t been able to understand Nokia’s direction. They claim openness and hackability with the maemo line. I haven’t seen anything great happen on the sphere so far. The apps are half baked, and typically of the quality you’d get on a linux desktop. The only thing I loved about the device was the xterm and the fact that I could drop to root and do things my favorite way on the command line. But when I look back, the price I payed was too much for it. Heck, when the new OVI maps for Maemo came out, it wasn’t backported to the old OS which did not have a decent raster maps application to begin with. When the time came to choose my next buy, I went for the Nexus One without skipping a heartbeat. Sure, it’s not all that free, but from what I’ve seen Google do with the G1, they sure don’t screw their paying customers who go for their flagship device.

    @Robin: Think about this: meego will use a different package mechanism (Maemo uses deb, moblin uses rpm). Intel and Nokia will do some arm twisting to stick to their existing packages, and I have a feeling that Nokia will have to bend here. Core packages will change, atleast superficially in names. New APIs will come in, and possibly a new process architecture – I have a strong feeling the next handset is going to be a Moorestown based one. Nokia has been bad at preserving any semblance of backwards compatibility, and all this will figure majorly when the new OS comes out. Developers don’t like to be shafted, especially when they are spending their time developing for a marginal OS with limited potential for revenue and which doesn’t come with smooth APIs well packaged. Consumers don’t like it when their shiny new toy becomes obsolete in 6 months and doesn’t get any more updates. Sure you may like it, and so do I to a certain extent, but Nokia is killing their chances of making a killer product that can have people excited big time. And they’re doing it repeating the same mistakes over and over again, without any remorse.

  10. Oh *please*.

    That is all blown totally out of proportion and poorly researched, as much as I’d expect from a site like that frankly.

    Addressing it in points, they have consistantly been pushing Qt for application development for *a very long time* now, and Qt will be *fully* supported on MeeGo without requiring rewrites – as well as Symbian, Maemo, and every other platform.

    For consumers: how, exactly is it going to be incompatible? That’s far too airy to actually pin down.

    For ‘the platform’, again, Qt is the “platform” they have repeatedly pushed, for maximum cross compatibility. But Gtk is *still* supported on MeeGo (http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u6/MeeGo-Arch-FullSize.png)

    And if this isn’t ‘developing the product line’, I don’t know what is — they’re transitioning from a semi-open partly-closed internal Nokia distro, Maemo, to a fully open, community spearheaded, fully fledged distro.

    Sure, there will be changes involved (there *always* *are*, a product line can’t stand still, yet be “developed beyond ‘ooh shiny’” without change), but I get the feeling that whoever wrote that post either doesn’t know the story, or is more just bitter that they’re going to have to register a new domain name.

    • Mr Green says:

      @Robin Burchell

      I don’t argue for Guru’s blog sake, but for mine and maybe yours. I have bought my 3rd different OS from Nokia in less than 1 year: E71, N97, N900. None of “my best apps” were common between the 3. If I were a dev, I’d stay and wait, as Janole is doing, not porting his Gravity to Maemo. And he guessed well: why bother for couple of months?

      Is this move going to attract devs? Customers? Is Maemo community going to survive? I hope, but I doubt.
      I don’t really want to play forecasting, but I’m just looking in other merrier gardens.

    • Mr Green says:

      @Robin Burchell

      BTW, a domain is 8 bucks per year. I suppose your saying TheGuru is bitter 8 $ / year versus 600 $ / 6 months a N900? Like 150 times less bitter than buying the latest Maemo 5 device?
      Well, I guess you’re right!

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